Talk:Cinder Fall/@comment-24834640-20180620211231/@comment-24834640-20180621170106
@ChishioKunrin I am glad you have clarified my point, it is very difficult for me to do it because English is not my mother tongue and I sometimes make mistakes :) @73.Annon.52 Nothing you said convinced me. You basically said "Cinder a bitch", "Raven a misunderstood woman" The experience but reasonable is very doubtful as justifying how Cinder was humiliated in the comabte. Ozpin has several years of experience and Cinder still won, not to mention that he has the intelligence to infiltrate an academy and cause the fall of a city. So he could at least engineer them. Raven looked like a Mary Sue in combat. The fight told you WHO WON BEFORE FINISHING. Something that goes against this fight. Raven is a villain made and right. Do not sweeten it by being an anti-heroine because the only argument you use, I already mentioned it and it gives me the reason why the fight with Cinder was fansercive. They only become Raven in anti-heroine for defeating Cinder but everything indicates that she is a villain. Even if we compare it with true anti-heroes like Vegeta, Shadow or Scorpionj she is very badly seen. *Lead a tribe of assassins, who assault other villages and traffic humans. God, did not you see that she captured Weiss because she was a Schnee and they would make a lot of money? *Murderer to the previous Spring Maiden, being only a girl. Under the excuse that he was weak and was doing him a favor (Spoiler: Several villains used that phrase too) *She wanted the relic to herself, not to help others and she was not interested to let die to all at the hands of Cinder and company. Not even his own daughter. I'll give you a comparison. Kazuya Mishima of Tekken is like that. And would you turn him into an Anti-Hero just because he killed Heihachi and declared war on his son Jin? Because basically it's what you're doing with Raven. *The Vernal thing is stupid, Heihachi Mishima felt sadness (I even release a tear) when he killed his wife Kazumi. But everything he did later makes him a full-fledged villain (Because they had no justification) An Anti-Hero like Shadow or Vegeta. They usually have an apathetic attitude towards others, questioning the system, so to speak, but they do not hesitate to help others. *Vegeta feels affection for his family and is able to leave his pride for them, demonstrating for his reason to want to fight against Zamas and Black. Wishing that his son Trunks is stronger or when Beerus slaps Bulma. But clearly Vegeta tends to break lines that others do not (at least in his time) like killing people, even as Majin Vegeta proved to be an antihero unlike Raven because he was able to give his life in an attempt to take down Buu, not without before his son Trunks was save. *Jin Kazama (I'm using Tekken a lot but I'm familiar with the saga just like RWBY) He's also an anti-hero, even just starting a war to awaken Azrael and free himself from the Devil Gene while saving the world from its threat . It had a noble purpose but with actions not so noble. Raven's actions and ends were not noble. *Shadow wreaked havoc with his lack of memory and the memory of Maria's death. But later after remembering everything. He had his redemption helping the protagonists on occasion but in a different and more aggressive way. *Hanzo Hasahi / Scorpion is also an antihero because all he wanted was revenge for the death of his family and after discovering that he killed Bi-Han for nothing he felt guilty. Did Raven feel guilty for killing the previous Spring Maiden?